The Holocaust wasn’t well known and widely acknowledged in the Allies at the time of WW2 for some years, it’s a sad consequence of the information war between Nazis and the Allies. Soviet soldiers report being surprised and disgusted when liberating extermination and concentration camps from the Nazis.
I don’t trust anyone, surely everyone is lying. Both sides have a very strong interest on propagating opposite points of view. Framing Russia as the saviours of the Russian population in Crimea and Donetsk against Ukronazis is very beneficial to Russia, framing Russia as a war criminal country kidnapping children is very beneficial to NATO.
Remember Nayirah’s testimony? Remember the WMDs in Iraq?
My point is that there aren’t many sources to trust for now, not from one side and not from the other, because of the ongoing conflict and information war. You can’t trust the New York Times in the same way you probably wouldn’t trust Russia Today.
If you saw a collectively edited article related to the Ukrainian War, edited primarily by Russian men, using Russian sources (whether state or private), would you trust it? Would you trust a collectively edited article on Taiwan edited primarily by Chinese men using primarily Chinese sources (whether state or private)? If the answer is yes I’ll shut up, if the answer is no, then why do you do it with Wikipedia?
Is your writeup about that specific article? Because if not, it’s irrelevant.
You can just say you don’t care to read about the intrinsic biases in wikipedia in specific topics and that you’ll keep uncritically using it.
Also, there are Wikipedia editors from all over the world
Wikipedia ITSELF acknowledges that the vast majority of articles, especially those written in “western” languages, are edited primarily by western men. I’m not making shit up, Wikipedia literally talks about it in a meta-article about bias in wikipedia.
Seems like your real problem is they’re being big meanies to Russia which only has the best intentions for Ukrainians and would never commit any war crimes.
Russia is a capitalist regime on a downwards spiral to fascism, and it’s perfectly capable of committing war crimes, it’s currently ongoing in increasing oppression of its own women and LGTBQ. That doesn’t mean we should take Wikipedia’s word during war time for granted. Go through the sources of the article and tell me how many non-western or non-Ukrainian ones are used. I’ve seen an article from the Russian oppositional media “Meduza” but I unfortunately can’t read Russian so I can’t really tell what it says. Plenty of other reference from outright US/Ukraine propaganda outlets such as the “conflict observatory”, a US “NGO” receiving money from the NED; or such as Ukrainian media, which obviously have a stake in this topic.
Please, give my writeup a chance, and if you have anything to comment on it, feel free to let me know
Welp, here’s hoping that western Europe doesn’t end up going in the same direction. I’m western European myself and I’m fucking afraid of the fascist spiral we’re seeing here too.
Could you please do me the favour and read my writeup before responding like that? I addressed what you’re saying.
Wikipedia itself has an article on its own bias, and an article on which sources the wiki editors consider reliable. Feel free to read my writeup for extended info on that.
Just curious. Would you support a civil war in now openly fascist USA (see support of genocide and nazi salutes in presidential inauguration)? I don’t support civil war in either because that’s a horrifying outcome for the population of both.
You are commenting in a post linking to “kyivinsider”, whose article sources its information from “alliance4europe”, this is literally state propaganda. I don’t mean to say it’s disinformation because the content of the article is probably true, but this is evidence that state propaganda is already rampant in Lemmy and we should be aware of it.
Wikipedia, according to itself, isn’t a reliable source when it comes to such internationally hot topics. It’s primarily written by western young men who are mostly exposed exclusively to western media, and the articles they write are referenced by this same media. If you wanna read a bit more on this, I did a writeup some weeks ago about this very topic, sourcing my information from wikipedia itself.
With this I don’t mean to say that the accusations you’re showing are false, I honestly don’t have enough information to confirm or deny it, but in times of war information is a powerful tool and media from both sides won’t doubt to distort information to benefit their own countries.
Keep in mind that state propaganda doesn’t equate misinformation. This very article is western state propaganda (“kyivinsider” using “alliance4europe” as a source for the article), and the report is most likely true. You don’t need to strictly lie or misinform to create state propaganda, you just need to propagate your talking points and direct the public discourse to given topics. We’re very concerned about Russian propaganda (and rightfully so) but, fuck, we’ve been literally supporting a genocide and all the state propaganda from our own western countries was directing ourselves in other direction, maybe we should worry about that too. We’re literally consuming state propaganda right now in this article.
You are literally reading EU state propaganda in this very post, an article by “kyivinsider” sourcing its information from “alliance4europe”, funded by the European Parliament and the Polish International Affairs ministry among others (according to its own website, feel free to check the link inside the article).
That doesn’t mean that it’s fake news or anything, the report is most likely true, just that it’s really ironic that we’re consuming state propaganda designed to make us worried about state propaganda from other “evil” countries (unlike our glorious EU parliament, not on a fascist downward spiral at all)
At no point did I discuss political prisoners (who exist in my Western European country too, believe it or not). I discussed the reliability of mass media, the level of state propaganda, manufactured consent and fabricated news. Some person you know being in prison has nothing to do with that, don’t immediately go and play the victim card, we’ were discussing western media here. You’re just shutting your ears and saying “the existence of authority abuse elsewhere means you have no right to mention the western bias in western media”.
Westerners are priviliaged to have a diverse and free news/media landscape, non-profits pushing for truthful and accessible knowledge, and world-class educational institutions
Bullshit. Westerners fall for western propaganda as much as anyone. Most on Lemmy were certain that the submarine cables were destroyed by the Russians on purpose, turns out the consensus isn’t the case. Most on Lemmy were certain that Nordstream was blown up by Russian, turned out not to be the case. Most on Lemmy believe there’s an ongoing genocide against Uyghur people, turns out it’s not the case. Most on Lemmy believe there was a massacre in Tiananmen square (good luck asking them to spell it) because the CPC sent the PLA to murder protestors, instead of a clash between protestors and military which happened after weeks of pro-capitalist protests and started after protestors murdered some military personnel in negotiation attempts. Most on Lemmy are willing to forgive the support for Genocide in Gaza to the US and its constant imperialism and aren’t willing to do the same for other countries.
You’re just being extremely chauvinist and ignorant about the quality of information in the west, and unaware of the manufacture of consent and the fabrication of false information and narratives.
resorting to more time-proven, unbiased, and trust-worthy ways to learn
Which are these unbiased ways to learn you talk about? Can you provide me any examples?
So let’s instead confine ourselves to social media from western countries which reflects exclusively western bias, whether through censorship as is the case of Meta/X, or through contributions by overwhelmingly white western men as is the case of Lemmy. Just look at politics.world and see what country most linked articles are from.
Maybe, just maybe, having more diverse options, including social media from other countries not subjected to western bias, could be good? That way maybe you can see some realities hidden by the Chinese government heavily publicised in western social media, and viceversa
If TikTok has the power to “turn” youth into pro Palestine, they can also turn the youth pro China when China invades Taiwan
You’re not making the argument you think you’re making here. Tiktok showed young people the uncensored truth about the genocide. If showing the uncensored truth about Taiwan makes young people want an invasion by China, then it means China is right?
That still only counts as one!